VHTV and the Chamber of Chatters

[The_Anonymous_One]

@Shyguy

I just said you used an aggressive tone which is completely different to how you write on the forum

I said you were a muppet which for me means silly I don’t think that’s aggressive.

@Shyguy

I never said you had

maybe I missunderstood the quote below as to me it implies that I am aggressive in my DM’s to you and as far as I checked I cannot see this.

@Shyguy

showing the type of anger you normally reserve for the DM’s

@Shyguy

I haven’t had a DM from you because you are not able to send me one after our last DM conversation about what you did in a topic on here

But I thought we agreed to disagree amicably I don’t know why you blocked me but I definitely sent you a DM on the 22nd of January.
Oh my understanding that if you are blocked you cannot send one to another user because a message comes up saying that you’re blocked from sending a message to this user.

@Shyguy

you have stated yourself you should have stayed away after your account deletion because of how the forum makes you feel

Yes you are correct but my wife and daughters were in Japan for a month and so I was a bit bored at home so I thought I’d come back here and say hi to people. Now they are back I will be spending a lot less time here as I will be spending a lot more time with them helping them with their final exams at school. I’ve even reduced my trips to Ukraine to focus on this.

Over the past the years I have picked up the Russian language quite well and partly Ukrainian, but most ukrainians speak Russian from my experience.

So, I thought I would share a bit of insight into what was actually going on, not to make myself look important or anything like that, but just to try and balance some of the outlandish and exaggerated views on the forums.,

However, it backfired on MikI’s thread when I posted that video of him throwing the girl out later (I deleted it) as I realised it was reactionary on my part I know you didn’t like my actions and so I decided to speak to him on chat and he explained the situation which was very valid and that is when I deleted the video and put up a post and saying that I would want to be putting up so many translations now as I don’t think it’s my responsibility to be fair.

I really feel that this is a big misunderstanding between us and I’m sorry if you feel aggrieved in some way, but I never intended for one moment to make you feel like that and if we can find some middle ground here I think we would both feel a lot better about the situation.

[John78]

Randolph

John, I was photographer for decades, 35 mm. I had multiple cameras, multiple lenses, multiple light meters, you name it, the whole nine yards. I shot film like I was drin king water, and each roll had 36 exposures (pictures). I devoured every book about photography I could get my hands on. If I couldn’t afford to buy it, I would sit in a library or bookstore and read it. Then came the Internet and the digital revolution. And, while I was still shooting 35 mm film, I was selling digital camera…

Man, in that particular situation, the pic you’ve used to play with, wasn’t at all a good one.

Kendall was lying down on the bed, resting her face on a pillow ( or similar). As the pic was taken from a side, off course that not all her face was visible. In few of the pics, the app was used only for the exposure. Them ones are ok ish.

The problem was when you cropped her face and used for different pose pics ( the other ones). That’s when it totally changed her appearance. And in a very bad way.

Like this pic

This what i was reffering to. Everything is changed. Look at her chin, nose, etc. Nothing to do with the reality.

Look at her face, chin, nose, etc

The difference is huge

So again, to be more clear, i never referred to this pic

It is still not the reality, but that bad (or far) like the other ones. And that’s because her position wasn’t changed

[letsdothis]

@John78

That’s when it totally changed her appearance.

It absolutely DID NOT change her face. Forget about what picture I chose or why I chose it. That is COMPLETELY irrelevant. Why are you trying to divert attention away from what I asked you? Why won’t you answer my question? Compare the three pictures I posted and tell me they are not the same face.

[John78]

Man, how come it didn’t changed her face, look again at her face

And this AI generated pic

Nose shape = changed. Chin shape/length = changed

Face shape/length = changed

[jabbath1987]

@letsdothis

It absolutely DID NOT change her face. Forget about what picture I chose or why I chose it. That is COMPLETELY irrelevant.

Unless you have the RAW data of an image you never can say that because you do not know what your program / tool did. How can you compare all the parameters from before / after? It is impossible unless you have the RAW image data

I also think you confuse the brightness of a photo with the exposure

The exposure you can’t change without having the RAW image data of a photo. Tools or programs can try by estimating certain values but as I said above never without making any changes to the rest of the parameters a well.
Good programs can try it when you enter certain paramaters like the type of the camera used, the type of lens, the aperture size and time and the ISO sensitivity.

The brightness however is easily to change by simply replacing each pixel of a photo with its next brighter one. This will make the photo as a whole more bright without altering any other information.

Now about the use of that AI tool:
Most AI tools nowadays are still bad with recognizing faces not facing the camera. They rely on certain paramaters to determine where a face starts and where it ends. This works pretty well as long as the face is facing the camera. The problems start when a face is only partially visible because the person is not facing the camera. In that case tools and programs interpret the information wrong and (like in your example) the face gets distorted with sharp edges and does no longer look like the face of the original person.

So for the future if you only want to make a photo brighter just use any program and just change the brightness and leave all other parameters as they are.
There is no AI needed for that at all.

[jabbath1987]

I made the photos the same size (pixels) and tried to align them the same way and layed them on top of each other.
While the chin / shape of lower face and mouth are still okay the big problems start when it comes to the nose and eyes. The proportions here are totally out of bounds: Face is too long, nose too long and narrow and the eyes are too high:

[letsdothis]

@John78

And this AI generated pic

You just refuse to understand. Her face DOES NOT get changed during the generative process. It only fills in the foreground and background around her face. It NEVER TOUCHES her face, or any picture I give it, at all. As I’ve said at least twice before, if it changed the picture I gave it, I would never use it.

And, you’re still diverting attention away from the question I’ve asked you at least three times. Why won’t you answer my question, John? I looked at all the pictures you posted. I asked you to show me the same courtesy. Compare the three pictures I posted before, and tell me the faces are not the same.

[John78]

I seriously don’t understand what you mean nor what the question is. I showed you time after time (using a corect full frontal pic) how her face looks like in reality. There is a big difference between the reality and the pic AI generated ( eyes, nose, chin, face shape). More than likely, because in the pic used, her full face is not visible, so the app actually generated a face not just enhanced a existing one. That face is generated by the app, it’s not her actual face.

I don’t know how to explain it differently.

Let’s try something. Take this pic with her full face and do the same things as you did with the other pic. Let’s see the result

[John78]

I managed to find another full frontal pic with her. Maybe use this one as well ?

[John78]

And another one. This is probably the best one to see the difference

[jabbath1987]

@letsdothis

Her face DOES NOT get changed during the generative process

How do you know that? Did you you see the log files what your tool did? This is just an assumption you have no proof for at all…

[jabbath1987]

This is what my AI tool does. And yes I am totally aware that the face is changed. I do not insist that the tool does not

[John78]

To be honest, in this case, the result is a…wow

Maybe because the original pic had a much better quality ?

[jabbath1987]

Could be. Took almost one minute to render so it is truely generated.

[John78]

And now looking at this pic, i can not see anything in common. There are two totally different persons/faces. This is what i keep trying to explain

[letsdothis]

@jabbath1987

Unless you have the RAW data of an image you never can say that because you do not know what your program / tool did.

That’s completely untrue. I’ve got two eyes. I can plainly see what, if anything, has changed in any picture I edit.

You keep talking about raw data, which you know is completely irrelevant in this situation. None of us have access to any raw data, and even if we did the size of the image would be totally prohibitive for posting in the forum. That’s assuming we could even post a raw data image.

@jabbath1987

The exposure you can’t change without having the RAW image data of a photo.

This is positively false. This image has increased brightness.

This image has increased exposure.

You can see the differences more easily in Ricci’s hands and face, as well as the wall, curtain and camera behind him.

@jabbath1987

This works pretty well as long as the face is facing the camera. The problems start when a face is only partially visible because the person is not facing the camera.

This is also false. I have no problem whatsoever editing faces that are not looking directly at the camera.

None of the image editors I use change the shape of a person’s face or alter it in any way, unless I specifically tell it to, which I never do because I don’t like that. And if any editor I used ever changed the shape of someone’s face, I would drop it like a hot potato.

Let me ask you the same question I’ve asked John. I posted three pictures in Ricci’s topic. Compare those three pictures and tell me they are different. To be clear, I’m talking about the pictures in this post. The first picture is John’s original with no changes, whatsoever, then the two edits.

Three pictures

While you’re at it, these three pictures are already the same size. You don’t have to enlarge or reduce anything, which, of course, would automatically change the shape of a face in half a heartbeat. Overlay those three pictures, or just one at a time over John’s original.

[letsdothis]

@John78

I showed you time after time (using a corect full frontal pic) how her face looks like in reality.

No you actually didn’t. You posted a completely different picture, which is totally irrelevant to the picture I edited.

@John78

I seriously don’t understand what you mean nor what the question is.

John, you present yourself as quite intelligent, but when it suits you, you play dumb. You know exactly what the question is. I’ve asked you at least three times, now.

Compare the three cropped pictures in this post, and tell me they are different. That’s the question, John. The first one is your original picture with no changes made, followed by the two edited photos.

Three pictures

@John78

the pic AI generated

@John78

That face is generated by the app, it’s not her actual face.

The AI did not generate her face, John, only the surrounding foreground and background. Nothing more.

I’ve told you that several times now, but you refuse to acknowledge it. You won’t even hear it. You think if you say something enough times, it’s automatically true. The AI did not generate her face, full stop. That is the truth. What you keep saying is false.

Why won’t you answer my question? What are you afraid of?

Answer my question.

[letsdothis]

@jabbath1987

How do you know that?

I told you exactly how I know that, Jabba. I looked at the before and after pictures and saw that they were the same, except for the exposure.

[letsdothis]

@jabbath1987

I am totally aware that the face is changed.

The quality of these faces has changed, e.g. better focus, less contrast, etc. But, the shape of their faces has not changed by even a single pixel.

[John78]

@letsdothis

No you actually didn’t.

I think you’re simply playing games with me and my patience now. How on earth i haven’t, when i posted pic after pic with her ???/

@letsdothis

You posted a completely different picture

Off course. I posted a frontal and with much better light pics so you can see how she’s actually looking like. How to be irrelevant ? The pics i posted, are showing the actual reality.

@letsdothis

Compare the three cropped pictures in this post, and tell me they are different. That’s the question, John. The first one is your original picture with no changes made, followed by the two edited photos.

The answer is simple: the first two pics are not different. The third one, made with AI, is different

You still don’t understand the problem. You cropped a pic showing only a part of her face (from one side) and then used that pic to generate a portrait pic. The result is simply hideous and has nothing in common with how that girl looks like in reality. That’s why i kept posting frontal pic after pic with her. To show you how bad doing that action changed the reality