The problem with that derogatory or offensive use is that the listener appears to have the right to call it d or o even iif there was no intention by the speaker to use it that way. There can be no right of reply to any criticism in the listeners view ,. In a forum such as this with incorrect grammar or translkation problems it is even more likely to cause offense.
I have already suggested here that VHTV adds a list of preferred pronouns for each participants to avoid misgendering them.
I agree with you in terms the word gay has now been monopolised by homosexual men and that will not change and is here to stay. Perhaps I didn’t make myself clear, I’m referring to when the term gay was first used I’m not sure if it was ever thought it would catch on. When I was growing up the word “poof” was used to describe a homosexual man. Without question to me when the word poof was said it always seemed to be in an abusive way.
Yes indeed the word “bent” or “benders” was used to describe homosexual men and I accept that is when “straight” came in to describe heterosexual men. When the word bent or benders was used, again it was used in a derogatory or abusive way.
It is important we use terms that are not going to offend by using them in the correct context, but more importantly it is how we behave to our fellow man. I have mentioned on here I have some gay friends, who I’m extremely proud to call my friends. They know I’m straight and they respect my sexuality as I do theirs. They say today we live in a more tolerant society and homosexuality is accepted in the majority of countries around the world. More and more countries are allowing same sex marriage, allowing a homosexual couples to adopt c___dren, etc etc. Whilst I accept all of that, there is still an awful lot of homophobic a___e out there. My gay fiends are still subjected to verbal a___e, ok not quite as much today, where 20 to 30 years ago it was more of a common occurrence.
I just hope if anything good can come out of this debate, it would be we become just be a little bit more respectful to our fellow man, respect the opinions they have, even if they differ from your own, cut the abusive name calling (and yes I have been guilty of that) and accept who they are.
This maybe a challenge for some but can we at least try?
Timmy you are actually arguing at cross purposes to yourself. Your point from earlier was that words can be okay except when used in a derogatory or abusive way and yet the two examples you quote poof and bender, were only ever used in that manner. In this case it is the words that are the problem not the inference.
Ok Wolfe let me explain, I hope this will make it a little clearer.
I’m from the UK and homosexuality was legalised in 1967, before then it was a criminal offence. I am sure back then it must have been very difficult to live your life as a homosexual man. If anyone suspected that a man was homosexual they would be called a “poof” or “bent” or “he is a total bender”. These terms were not used as a term of endearment , but to offend and insult the person they were directed too. That is why I said these terms were used in a derogatory way. In fact today I am pleased to say I never hear poof, bent or bender used. They were terms used back in the 60’s and 70’s and as far as I am concerned that is where they should stay.
I hope this helps.
i completely agree . I too am from the UK and yes i remember exactly everything you say .
My argument is not whether they were abusive, because they obvoiiously are. My argument is that they are only abusive and therefore in your statement that some words are okay unless used abusively, these words are a bad example ( bad word usage , grammar - call it what you like) because they cannot ever be ok .
Gay may be a word that can be used as okay , A description of a homosexual ? thats ok, a girl behaving gay , as in happy and dancing? thats ok ? 'Get out of my way you b___dy gay ‘’ abusive. Poof bender no use in your argument.
Yes I take on board and accept what you say.
It is the word gay that I say can be used in a positive or negative way towards homosexual men. Most homosexual men will accept the word gay to describe their sexuality as homosexual women will accept the word lesbian. It is how these words are used which matters, for example to describe one’s sexuality, are you straight, gay or bi? I’m sure the majority of homosexual men would be happy to reply gay. That is a positive stance and acceptable.
Where it is unacceptable is when it used to undermine their sexuality, like “he is a gay”, or, “look at them bunch of gays over there”. More often that not these phrases include expletives to hammer home there abusive use.
Exactly and my point from the first reply was that the only person who can choose whether that is offensive or not is the recipient.
Q… Are you straight or gay ? most guys A …Gay
Some guys A … that’s offensive . The questioner has no right of reply . He has been accused of being offensive and the word can be taken either way. That is a problem for the questioner or anybody put in that position.
That equally applies to racist words, or fattist , or ageist
It is not dissimilar to the old questions. Have you stopped beating your wife.
You have used a word that can be seen as -anti-gay, or racist or whatever and in the court of ‘’ he common man’’ you are therefore seen as bigoted racist whatever. Very difficult nowadays to have a conversation with someone who wants to prove a point that you are homophobic racist etc.
BTW i am not remotely suggesting that you are any f these things , i am just saying that i in the past have been on the defensive side of arguments like this and it is very difficult to disprove a negative.
I would like to apologise to @Kevin and @Karina for my part in clogging up their discussion page with off topic comments. I did mention this in post 1591 but others like @Lennie185278 would not let it go, that says it all doesn’t it. It will be interesting to see if an apology from Lennie is forthcoming.
Sorry, it was post number 1591 but Bluewinner has moved it to General Discussion on Gender ID etc and it is post number 95. That number may change if more posts get shifted across.
Thanks @Bluewinner for sorting the off topic comments out and perhaps we can start posting comments about this apartment
I thought @Bluewinner , ended this confrontation?
Sorry @X192023 the confrontation will never be over because Lennie boy will never allow it. What @Bluewinner done was move the discussion to a new heading as it was off topic.
Finally Lennie boy, you say you want an apology from me, well to get that hell would have to freeze over first. Now drop it and move on!
Timmy boy brought up that I owe an apology. He knows I have nothing to apologize for so why does he bring it up. He’s the one who owes me an apology for what he has called me and said about me!
I said you should apologise to @Kevin and @Karina for clogging up their discussion page with off topic posts. That is the least you can do. I’m not expecting you to apologise to all our gay friends on here, even though they deserve one.
No don’t worry Wolfe I’m not taking it personally. Actually Wolfe I have enjoyed having this discussion with you.
Whoever keeps flagging people in here, it is not for personal grudges. This function is reserved for serious breaches of forum policy and just wastes VHTV’s time checking these. Please stop this.
I should apologize to Kevin and Karina? There were 20 participants that commented. Over a hundred comments. Should they all also apologize to Kevin and Karina? Shouldn’t you apologize to Kevin and Karina for being a participant in this discussion?
Hey Bluewinner - my last post has been up for 5 minutes. Isn’t it time for you to hide it?
Is VHTV so boring today that this is topic with most replies? 